Open reply to Patrick Hollingdale regarding BIABacus

[WARNING: This is a long post .. reading required]

 

Dear Patrick,

(For those of you who do not know who Patrick Hollingdale is, he is also known as Pat, PistolPatch, BIABrewer.info, Nuff on brewing forums, and probably has many more pseudonyms. He is the owner and dictator of the Biabrewer.info forum)

 

I write this open reply because you chose not to disclose the recipients of the e-mail, thus my only option is to send you an open reply to ensure fairness of all parties. This way I know other people are able to reach this freely without moderation.

 

I do not know what you are trying by putting other recipients in the BCC field, my best guess is that you’re putting on a power-play attack as you so often do when people don’t follow your ambiguous bidding.

 

Email 1: Regarding no respect

Here is your original e-mail

From: Patrick Hollingdale <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:10 PM
Subject: Why no respect for me or Kostas or Lambert? (Sorry, should have said…)
To: Sig <[email protected]>

Sig, I’ve always treated you well but am in a pondering mood tonight.
I wrote you a really nice email a week or so ago (I’ll find it and post it below) and have still had no reply. Why?
Kostas and Lambert also treated with you the utmost respect and tried to correspond with you but you never/hardly ever replied to them as well. Why?
I have no idea on how to deal with you now. To me and them you have become a bit of a weirdo now. Why wouldn’t you reply to us? You put in a lot of hours to this project but never anywhere near the hours I did and, even then, I still gave you the opportunity of equal value.
So this email asks, “Why have you shown no respect for me or Kostas or Lambert or the forum?” Obvious answer is you are weird.
But, I’m sorry, I should have said, “Given your actions, what would you like me to say about you in the BIABacus credits when I write them?” Let me know what bits you think have made a real difference or what bits you think you might like to contribute in the future? I think there is a lot you can still offer but, I also think I am bullshitting here. I am trying to give  you credit for things you never did.
We can embellish things, if you want, to make you look good because nothing can be worse than what you have actually done.
I’m all ears.
Pat
And, to the bcc guys, here is a copy of my last email to Sig to which, like countless others, I never have received a reply…

The e-mail ends here. The copy of this e-mail was not present. I will paste the e-mail that is being referred to below the answers to this e-mail.

My response to e-mail 1

Here are my responses to your e-mail:

Response 1

Sig, I’ve always treated you well but am in a pondering mood tonight.

I do not know where you got this idea that you have always treated me well, but this is far from the truth in my experience, Patrick. You tend to treat people around you very badly from time to time, I have been no exception.

Response 2

I wrote you a really nice email a week or so ago (I’ll find it and post it below) and have still had no reply. Why?

I have not gotten around to answering your e-mail, I will however answer it in this post since I am taking the time for it now. It has been ~5 days, 71% of a week.

 Response 3

Kostas and Lambert also treated with you the utmost respect and tried to correspond with you but you never/hardly ever replied to them as well. Why?

I don’t know what you are talking about. The only e-mail I found I have not replied to Kostas is on Febuary 2nd and those were answered in a Skype chat IIRC. Granted, I am not the quickest to reply to e-mails sometimes, but I do try my best to reply once I am able. That is most often within a week. Maybe you’re talking about some forum post where things got blurry (as they usually do when you’re trying to make some point across). Maybe you can expand on what you are talking about.

Response 4

I have no idea on how to deal with you now. To me and them you have become a bit of a weirdo now. Why wouldn’t you reply to us?

I still do not know what you are talking about. See my previous answer. It’s not nice to call people weirdos though. I find this personal comment very offensive.

Response 5

You put in a lot of hours to this project but never anywhere near the hours I did and, even then, I still gave you the opportunity of equal value.

Dear Patrick, you seem to think hours are more worth than actual value and that’s a shame.

If you take 10 hours to do the same thing I do in 10 minutes, does that make the value of my 10 minutes less than your 10 hours? No, the value is the same.

Work smart, not hard (especially in software development).

I put in a lot of hours, and you probably put in a lot more BUT many times I put in work for a half an hour that you had been struggling with for hours or even days. I do not consider that a good contribution on your behalf, especially since you knew you are not too good at math, programming or efficient layout work (time wise).

Also, a lot of my time went into fixing things you seemed to be breaking time and time again.

As for opportunity of equal value, I was on my way to write a brewing software that had a particular purpose and it was not meant to be a project associated with anyone but myself. I mentioned this to you when we began working on this project. It was no less me who gave you the opportunity of equal value. Your brewing software is however stuck in a similar place as it was when I begun since you have started once again, it appears, from scratch.

Time I put in the project I took from my family, my whole summer vacation 2011, my company and other things that give me revenue with the idea that this project would head somewhere (it didn’t and it still isn’t).

Response 6

So this email asks, “Why have you shown no respect for me or Kostas or Lambert or the forum?” Obvious answer is you are weird.

For Kostas and Lambert, I do not know how I have shown them disrespect.

For you, Patrick, I do not know how I have shown you any disrespect.

For the forum, I do not know how I have shown the forum any disrespect.

As for the part calling me outright weird, this is very disrespectful and obnoxious of you, Patrick.

Response 7

But, I’m sorry, I should have said, “Given your actions, what would you like me to say about you in the BIABacus credits when I write them?” Let me know what bits you think have made a real difference or what bits you think you might like to contribute in the future? I think there is a lot you can still offer but, I also think I am bullshitting here. I am trying to give  you credit for things you never did.

I do not know how you intend to present the credits, so please put credits where they are due.

I noticed that you have removed everything that has been done to date (once again..) and started from scratch.

I take credit on many of the formulas since I (re)wrote a lot of them. I do not know if you agree (and quite frankly, do not care), but I took the time to create the equations, even though you do not understand them all. They are all in a Google Document that shows the history of this.

I do not know what else is left that I have done (I imagine you started with a fresh excel sheet) except maybe thought and ideas on a lot of things.

I have little or no interest in continuing to contribute since I know all contributions are worthless. You manage to destroy most of the contributions that come your way. This happened a couple of times when I was working on the BIABacus Excel spreadsheet/program.

Please give credits where they are due, don’t try to be some sort of Messiah.

Response 8

We can embellish things, if you want, to make you look good because nothing can be worse than what you have actually done.

What are you talking about?

I simply don’t know how to respond to such a stupid and childish comment.

Response 9

I’m all ears.
Pat
And, to the bcc guys, here is a copy of my last email to Sig to which, like countless others, I never have received a reply…

I have gone through all my communication with you numerous times when you have made the accusations that I do not reply. I simply am not able to find ANY e-mails or direct questions that I have not answered.

I know that you have the tedious tendency to ask so indirect and ambiguous questions that they give the best professors in English a wicked workout to dig through and find. I (like many others that have the same problem with you) am simply not able to dig through your garbage of a text to find a question. The worst questions you ask though, are the questions where you think you are asking a question, but are in fact making a vague statement.

In the past I have kindly requested of you to ask direct questions, yet you have persisted and ignored this request.

While responding to this e-mail, I got the following reply from Patrick.

Reply from Patrick on his own e-mail

From: Patrick Hollingdale <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Why no respect for me or Kostas or Lambert? (Sorry, should have said…)
To: Sig <[email protected]>

Just re-read one of my sentences below – “Obvious answer is you are weird.”
Hahahaha! That is an obvious sign that I am still working at 4am for the third or fourth day in a row.
That sentence should have been written as, “Such uncourteous behaviour is really weird.”
Yep, that’s better!
There should be enough in today’s correspondence to easily focus any blame on me.  Easy peasy to do but it still won’t be true.
Annoying stuff!
Pat

My response to this e-mail

It’s never an obvious sign how long you work, you always seem to be cranky and pissed off at everyone, steaming on whoever pisses you most off at the time you boil over.

You wrote a very obnoxious sentance, even if you meant it in another way.

You do very well at assigning blames. I won’t be focusing on much of that.

Working long hours is no excuse for bad behavior. Own up to what you say and do.

Email 2:

Below is the e-mail sent from Patrick that I did not reply to in 5 days.

From: Patrick Hollingdale <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:22 PM
Subject: Fw: Hey there fella!
To: Sig <[email protected]>

Oops! Forgot to copy my last email to Sig to you others. Here it is and I am still awaiting a reply from it and the many others I or Kostas or Lambert have written months ago. Here it is…
Been wanting to write for ages to see how you are. I’ve been waiting for a time when I didn’t have a hundred things flying around my head and could just sit back and say hello. Well, have finally found that time!
Nice to see your post on the mill and thanks also for posting on my birthday. When’s yours btw?
Has everything being going well at your end?
All’s good here. Have been ploughing on with the BIABacus making at as good as possible without macros so as to keep the LibreOffice people happy – lol! I think the end result will be good enough until we can find some old bugger who has retired from programming and has nothing to do for about two years Hot smile. Kostas did a good job on the db but then *MODERATED: Removed due to respect of private matters* My goodness!
Anyway, just wanted to say howdy.
Spot ya!
Winking smile Pat

My response to e-mail 2

Response 1

Been wanting to write for ages to see how you are. I’ve been waiting for a time when I didn’t have a hundred things flying around my head and could just sit back and say hello. Well, have finally found that time!

Hi, nice to hear from you Pat :-)

Response 2

Nice to see your post on the mill and thanks also for posting on my birthday. When’s yours btw?

Thanks. My birthday is on May the 21st.

Response 3

Has everything being going well at your end?

Sure, things have just been really busy with my day job, my start-up company and my family (one newborn baby). How about you, really busy as usual?

Response 4

All’s good here. Have been ploughing on with the BIABacus making at as good as possible without macros so as to keep the LibreOffice people happy – lol! I think the end result will be good enough until we can find some old bugger who has retired from programming and has nothing to do for about two years Hot smile. Kostas did a good job on the db but then *MODERATED: Removed due to respect of private matters* My goodness!

*MODERATED: Removed due to respect of private matters* I know he did a fantastic job on the db design.

*MODERATED: Removed due to respect of private matters*

Response 5

Anyway, just wanted to say howdy.
Spot ya!

Howdy.

Response 6

Oops! Forgot to copy my last email to Sig to you others. Here it is and I am still awaiting a reply from it and the many others I or Kostas or Lambert have written months ago. Here it is…

Here this is again … I don’t know where there are unanswered questions. Expand instead of ranting!

 

Why this rant?

This is almost identical to what I’ve seen from Patrick as attacks on other people. They usually start as a “nice ways” to get his will done (email 1) .. then escalate (email 2) .. and then escalate until there is a finale – the other person gives in (or is indespensible)

This open reply makes sure that whatever I write and whatever Patrick writes remains in the open, freely interpreted by anyone as they like.

 

My predictions on the BIABacus future?

I imagine that the BIABacus will not go anywhere beyond a semi-working spreadsheet with Patrick as a project leader.

In my experience with Patrick, he is unable to take a software project forward to the end simply because of bad leadership.

If he offers you to be a part of his project, please take an educated decision, no matter what the decision is.

Patrick is not a good project leader, nor a software engineer (no matter what he says about his days in MS Access). He likes to micromanage and try to understand every small detail everyone else is doing, this is the main cause of BIABacus slow development. Patrick also doesn’t understand bug reporting software or any other software that helps and accelerates general development.

 

Conclusion..?

Patrick is a really great guy (even though this post focuses on negative things) .. just not always.

When someone pisses him off (usually due to some obscure imagined or badly interpreted reasons) he isn’t such a great guy. He usually attacks people, using e-mail communication (as you see above) or personal messages in the BIABrewer.info forum.

I know this because I have seen it and ignored it in the past (perhaps I should have spoken up about this in the past …). I have only seen this to users of the BIABrewer.info forum, but I imagine that Patrick is the same to most people that are around him. Some of the people he attacks usually get so pissed off that they stop using the BIABrewer.info forum.

People I know that have been a victim of his attacks are:

Scott Schluter

  • Founded the “BIAB – Brew In A Bag” Facebook page
  • Patrick didn’t like it when Scott mentioned that Patrick was moderating heavily. IIRC, Patrick replied that he almost never moderates. I know this to be false, Patrick moderates (to date, Patrick has moderated other peoples posts 519 times according to my sources).

Eoin Magrath

  • Eoin and his wife sow custom BIAB bags. Patrick didn’t like it when he didn’t get “his cut” of the action. Patrick claims that Eoin promised to give him a percentage of the sales. I don’t know the facts here, but I’m guessing that Patrick was expecting something for nothing.
  • Patrick didn’t like it when Eoin advertised his custom BIAB bags on the BIABrewer.info forum without asking him first.

*NAME REMOVED DUE TO REQUEST*

Stuart Espey

  • Really smart guy that figured out some formulas (for instance, “auto efficiency adjustment”)
  • Don’t remember what he did to piss Patrick off, but I remember there was something.

There are more

In conclusion, working with Patrick can sometimes be OK , hellish at other times.

 

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*EDIT*

Please note that the people mentioned in the list above have nothing to do with this e-mail communcation between me and Patrick.

If you want to have your name removed, please notify me and I will remove it.

Comments

  1. says

    Hi Siggi, the man needs his own internet…….

    His claim that we promised a cut of the action is a complete fabrication, he had mentioned the possibility at some point of a partnership, I did not consent to that as it was too early, but to be honest at one point I did envisage such a partnership. When he sent the mail actually asking about this, it was so rude and badly communicated that I told him I wanted no part of his site, I think you possibly saw and read that communication and can make up your own mind.

    I see he still hasn’t taken the course in communication that I advised and I think again he got up this morning and wiped his ass with a page from “How to make friends and influence people” and I don’t think that was the purpose intended for him when someone advised he could use the book.

    Eoin

    • siggi says

      Hi Eoin.

      Thanks for the comments. He is quite rude.
      He (or someone on his behalf) even deleted my account (sigurdur) and all of my posts on BIABrewer.info .
      Very unfortunate since I was going to post a farewell thread on the forum.

      Oh well, live and let live I guess ;)

      /Sig

      • says

        I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it Siggi, he’ll end up on an internet island someday with his precious calculator and a few blind people…it’s a pity because the site would be a good resource if it was not just all about him him him and how busy he is and how little we all do for him.
        His challenge, owing to his personality, is to get people to contribute financially, but the way he goes about it, there’s very little chance that will ever happen in a meaningful way.

        Eoin.

  2. EthelW says

    Hi siggi,
    Unfortunately you are not the first and won’t be the last to leave the forum, but as Eoin relates, don’t lose sleep about it. The idea of a BIAB resources site was fine to begin with however the execution left a little to be desired, showing the inexperience in managing forums and also the conflicing objectives (reference resources discussion forum).
    As for the whole software thing, well where to begin… I know I’d be treating the experienced developers 10 minutes as gold- a very precious gift the value of which is not always obvious.
    The post/uid deletes leave some fairly obvious holes but your good work echoes on regardless, so chin up and carry on!

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